Category: Let's talk
Dear Zoners I am writing this post here because I honestly have no idea as to which topic it should really fall under. After discussing the CL elections with some of my fello Zoners a few hours ago, I had decided to send an email to the admins requesting another election like that which had taken place between October 31st and November 7th of 2012, almost 2 years ago. Shortly after I had done this, I received a reply in which one of the admins suggested that I write about it in a board post in attempt to start a discussion regarding this matter, and here it is.
I for one believe it to be extreamly unfair both for the currently active Community leaders as well as for the zoners that most of those who were last elected in 2012 have been inactive some for almost a year. Their promises have not been carried out as those who voted for them had expected, and in result of this the remaining 2 community leaders have been burdened with far greater a responsibility than they should have to bare. This is making it difficult even for the Zoners themselves as the number of community leaders is limited and the leaders themselves cannot possibley be online 24/7! Furthermore, as the last election was this many months ago, those who have joined the Zone afterwords had no say what so ever as to who their community leaders should be. I have been told that many have requested an election with little to no success. This has now changed.
We are finally being heard.
We finally have the opportunity to demote the inactive community leaders and replace them with hardworking candidates who will assist their fello leaders in sharing the responsibility, as the way things should be. Let us not allow this chance to slip between our fingers!
I look forward to further discussions regarding this matter, but until then, regards.
I have little to say other than I support this idea. Though I am not nearly as frequent a participent of this site as many others, if the situation is as you say, may be worth reevaluating the leadership.
I agree we need to get rid of the inactive community leaders. However, how do we know that if we have another election that the same thing won't happen again. The community leaders who campaigned the hardest and made the most promises are the ones who disappeared shortly after being chosen. So what's to stop this from happening again?
while I, too, support this idea, Becky does have a valid point, in wondering how we could keep this from happening again, if at all.
so, until or unless that's able to somehow be resolved, I don't see this working well.
Well we already know which of the Community leaders are active, so if they decide to run again the answer is quite clear. As for those who have not yet been elected, or have been in the past and have been active in their time as Community leaders, It is rather obvious as to who the frequent and promising zoners are here. I for one would most certainly not vote for those who suddenly appear out of nowhere during the time of election campaigns after having been absent for who knows how many years, nor would I bank on those who change their behavior during that time, obviously aiming to please as has been done in the past.
Both an election of leaders, and a change in policy to reflect what the community is asking
for. Responsible volunteers resign if they can't continue, rather than just go AWOL, as
some of the kids who won the last election did. This change would help the active leaders
who are often overburdened with all the work. I think we're on the right track to be
discussing this right after a response from the admins.
Thanks, Infectious Shadow, for bringing this up.
The Zone members wanted a vote, so received it. This hasn’t worked out.
When the Admin chose we had more participation from the CL’s.
I agree policy changes are in order.
A CL should be required to spend so much time per week, say 4 hours logged in.
They should be required to post why if they cannot do this.
If they are absent for one month without hardship, or medical issues, a note should be sent, and they have a set number of days to respond before they are dropped.
I believe with a policy change and a vote, things could work better.
The current active CL’s should not be subject to this vote, only the empty spots.
If I’m not mistaken, one of the admin’s suggested he was working on this issue. This has been a while.
I assumed he was going to give the inactive CL staff so much time to return, but this hasn’t happened.
I did see one come back, but she only did it for a minute, and hasn’t come again.
At this point, all of these should be dropped and a new vote.
I did not personally vote, nor want a vote, so this is only an opinion from a person that stands to the side.
Last night when we were talking about this in publics, I was one of these that said send this.
You got a response, so now lets see if that response bares fruit.
You have done as asked.
I hope that you're successful in your endeavor. Maybe this time, something will get done. In the meantimes, look for a board called:
Please Read: Seeking Input on Updates to Terms of Service
This will give you an idea of how many people contributed their time and ideas to how things could improve. Some of it, you will agree with, and some you will not, I'm sure, but it's a good read, anyway. Please note the dates on some of those posts as well.
I have the perfect solution to the question of what we should do if the CL's go
inactive as they seem so predisposed to do. Don't have the CL position be a
permanent one. Have elections every three months. If the cl is a good cl, they
get re-elected. If not, or they're not active to run again, they aren't a cl
anymore. I would also suggest making it a requirement that someone has to
have been on here longer than a set period, say a year, in order to run for cl.
That way we don't get people who signed up last week or something. Seems
like it would be a pretty simple issue to solve if we just did that. Not very
difficult.
I agree with this, but rather than every three months, I would suggest every six months. I think people would get bored with the process if they are asked to vote every three months. I also think three months might not be enough time for a CL to prove their worth.
I also caution everyone to remember that there are a lot of things CL's cannot do on their own. People want changes and complain to a CL, but often the CL cannot do anything about that specific complaint. This is where participation by the admins becomes important. If the admins don't have conferences
with the CL's on a regular basis and don't respond to the complaints and suggestions of CL's and regular users, than it doesn't much matter who holds CL positions.
66 months seems good, but in that case, the free premium membershiips would also have to only be given for 6 months.
The other issue would be if the CL has been doing the proper job, but many have gotten mad at him or her for it. That could be a problem.
We want a CL to work when need be, not be popular at the cost of doing a proper job.
If a CL has been doing a proper job, 1 year, should be the expiration date, just like the premium membership.
6 months only for replacement reasons.
I meant 6 months, not 66.
The site is odd today. Lol
i would lie to run for the position of a cl. i know my spelling is bad. i can be loud, rude, and even al ittle out there. however, i wont make any promisis i cant keep. so consider me for your next cl.
Very good guys keep the comments coming.
I challenge those of you who said it isn't worth persuing this issue to explain in more detail why. If it's such a problem, doing nothing about it won't fix anything. You should know this. I agree with the once a year plus a six year review idea.
The problem with the whole 3 months idea is that it can take a bit of time to become really familiar with the site and the limited new powers. When I first came on as a CL, we talked about having a meeting every 3 months or so, just to touch base and talk about what did or didn't need to be done. Our last meeting was in November of 2012. If we have new cl's every 3 months, it would most likely result in more confusion than it's worth. There's almost no communication as it is.
I agree with Anthony, three months is not long enough for a person to develop the skills to become a good cl.
Also, if a person is doing an adequate job, they shouldn't have to run a re-election campaign to get elected again. Scott is a good example of this: he's been a cl forever, he logs on periodically, and, I guess does a good job when he does log on.
On the other hand, if someone doesn't log on for two weeks, and hasn't communicated with the admins, or their fellow cls, or the community via these boards,I'd say kick them out and elect someone else to do their job.
Just my opinion.
Bob
I meant periodically.
The general rule offline is that if you are absent from three meeting without authorisation, you are removed. An online version could be implemented so CLs could be removed and elections for their positions could then take place.
IF we're doing the election thing a second time. We also need to address the
issue of vote fixing.
Users running as candidates as well as users who were not running, were
paying people points and making other agreements to insure the person
voted the way they found most fitting.
Several of us reported this to the admins, but considering they never really
responded to us, I can't say weather the issue was ever looked in to.
considering some cheaters remained on the poll.
Because of this, I think it would be a good idea to affirm that this activity is
against the rules of the election. In addition, setting down some penalties could
provide a disincentive for people to violate the rule. Maybe something like this
would work.
for those in the running for a CL spot, if caught vote fixing
1. You will be removed from the poll, and all your votes will be forfeit.
2. Your account will be disabled until the end of the election, so you may not
influence people to vote for other candidates now that you are out of the
running.
3. You will be ineligible for applying to be a CL for 3 years.
For those caught vote fixing who are not running for a CL spot.
1. your account will be disabled until the end of the election.
2. Your vote for CL will be forfeit.
3. You will be unable to apply to be a CL for two years.
the above should apply to both parties who can be proven to have fixed votes.
I know a lot of people didn't vote after they saw people attempting to fix the
vote system, because it affirmed their beliefe that it was just a popularity
contest.
If we actually want people to trust in the democratic process here, we need to
make it clear buying or manipulating votes is not tolerated.
I think we can have 50% community vote and 50% staff choice. We shouldn't rely on 100% on community votes. I don't see why we can't do a roling cl change, say, you change over every 12 months, but do it gradually, you might change 2 out of 6 cl, and then another 2 the next year, and so it goes. That will give the old cl a chance to teach the new people what to do, and get the new cls some support from the old cls. I think 12 months is reasonable for a mid term change over. If any cl abcent for more than 30 days, they should automaticly removed from their post.
Regardless of what personal or non personal reason, if you are commited to become a cl, you should be commited to the site. If you can't be bother, then, you shouldn't commited to be a cl.
Also, i think, only for cls that is on the full term, say, after 3 years of leadership, then they offer a life time premium membership. If not, they just go on as to how long they serve. And also, set up a probation period, for say, first 3 months, where, the existing cl need to access their progress as a new cl and that.
I don't see the point in cl elections right now.
How often are the admins around. Yes, they appeared for a few days, but like anthony said they didn't update the boards with information to say what they were doing, so as a cl he had to scramble to actually figure it out. They should be updating the board with site news, it is their responsibility.
So will electing new cl's work when the admins barely show up? There's been no meetings for several years, they don't consistently update the site or add features and they rarely respond to users concerns.
Perhaps before we elect new cl's it should first be determined if any policies we suggest will be enforced. Will the admins be around to check whether cl's are working? Will they keep their end of the deal?
I know this seems negative, I like the site but you sometimes have to start from the top. Yes, ideally we do need more cl's to make the workload fair, and everyone's suggestions are good. But if there's no admins around to enforce these what's the point.
Ah yes, my point exactly. Thank you Holly.
I do think with the current zone, cl or no cl don't make much different. And that is not to discount works that Anthony and Scott, particular Antho does in day to day bases. Cl doesn't make it better, and without cl it doesn't make it worse either. Zone is just, Zone. As i said time and time again, if the site owner can't care more on the zone, and let cls do the dirty work for them, like banning zoners and that, it is really not effective.
From the management point of view, you only going to give so much if your boss, leaders, employers, not going to appreciate your hardworks, and can't give a damn as to what you, or don't do.
I think this is a great idea. As you said, shortly after winning elections in 2012 many of the new, promising CL's flew the coop and have not returned since. So hopefully we can find some new ones to help those who remain active and available, and allow some new committed Zoners to assume the role.
I agree with Anthony (our only really committed cl), leaffan, and PinaColada.
There isn't much the cls can do to improve or maintain the site without a commitment from the admins. Why not make Anthony an admin, and hold an election for three or four cls?
I agree that something should be done to prevent the buying of votes. Perhaps the punitive measures proposed in an earlier post would be effective.
Once we had a new administration, one of the first things they should do is to rewrite the TOS.
Bob
Ah, seems the Zone is just like the real world. Buying votes, or get the rech to pay for you campaigning.
CL's do hold a needed place, as to checking on new memberships, and inforcing the rules we do have.
They also help others with the site, and generally answer questions.
This is important, due to users sometimes not being willing to answer the simplest questions ask in the public forum.
I personally will answer if I can, but I sometimes don't always want to be seen as the person always sticking my nose in, so I've waited to see if someone would answer from time to time.
For whatever reason, no one does.
So, the CL on a site like this have a purpose.
But what's the use of enforcing a rule, only to have an admin overturn it? There are several banned users who technically should no longer be here, but they were allowed to come back and stay. Nothing a CL can do, except for being a laughingstock. One guy even said in publics that if he did go too far and one of us CL's banned him, he'd just get JJ to put him back, and honestly, I think it would probably happen just that way.
It can't be said that the CLs are not useful, I have had instances in which I required a higher authority regardless as to how much, mainly with account issues and answering questions as has been pointed out in the previous comment. The CLs are not the admins and they shouldn't be expected to behave as such so I do agree that at least one admin should log in from time to time even once a week would be better than this. I totally agree that Anthony should be promoted to Admin he's the one I've seen most around here with all due respect to Scot.
The main reason I could never be an admin is because I know absolutely 0 about coding. I appreciate the thoughts, but that's one position I'd be hard pressed to take. I've done the best I could with what I have, and will continue to do so.
I don't know enough about that side, so I can't say.
If an actual rule was broken instead of permanent banning, there should be a limit. That is just an opinion.
Just like all other sites that have CL type people.
A week, or something.
I don't think there is any chance for JJ to give the admin rights away to others than ChrisN. If he would like to do so, he would have done it years ago. Unless there is a change over of zone, the ownership of zone, it is more than likely that things will remain the same for a long time regardless of new cls or not.
Inactive CLs is just one of the issue the zone have. Not to say that it is a bad and messy coding site to start with, and other issues as how to deal with the TOS and how some oners take advantage of cl, or insult them for good masures and all that.
We can all talk about the ideally perfect solution, having admin log in at least ones a week, having cls on 24/7 around the site, from different nations and different time zone, but again, it is not realistic at this point of the time. If, the admins take more than 2 years to not get rid of cl that didn't log in for more than 6 months, or even longer, they are more than likely not going to do any major changes to the site.
Yes, we can have new cls, we can nominate, elect, and all that, but at the end of the day, it will be same old same old problems.
Not to say that, what has been written here is not nothing new at all. Zoners that have been here for more than a year or two will go through the same old same old story for at least a few times now, and it getting no where.
Actually, Anthony can correct me if I'm wrong, one of the most tedious tasks I had when I was a cl was to provide the phrases for anagrams.
Tedious, but necessary.
Bob
So to eliminate that tedium, make a board topic where people post ideas for anagram words and phrases, so the CL can go and pick the one he wants. I imagine it's hard to keep up and come up with new ideas.
I'd love that aspect of being CL actually. lol
though I wonder if i'd eventually run out of ideas.
That was one of the raffles at one time. the winner got to pick the anagrams for a week. It might not be so tedious if several people did it, but when it's all up to one person, yeah, it's rough. I thought I'd have a heart attack one day when Scott got on here and did 2 months worth of it. It gave me a much needed break.
If community leaders are being undermined by admins, that will putt people off becoming community leaders. Thhis site is strange, in that community leaders can come from anywhere in the world They don't work together in the same workplace, but are expected to be as consistent as people who do work in the same workplace.
To some people, the Zone is a very important part of their lives. That's why they spend such a lot of time here. Those who will vote based on who gives them the most points are particularly desperate. The games are of an unhealthy level of importance to them. The regular users want different things. Some think they should be able to bully other users, and some want to feel safe. Less regular users will go elsewhere if the Zone isn't to their liking, but some of those who virtually live here expect a community leader who could be anywhere in the world to sort their problems out straight away.
The Zone is not a professional community. It's just a social network for blind people that is maintained by volunteers whose commitment levels vary. Personally, though I read and contribute to some discussions I find interesting, I don't think the Zone is worth considerable time and effort in my week. I wouldn't be working towards anything if I was a community leader, I'd just be maintaining thiings as they are. I, and I suspect others, have higher priorities.
Well done to those who have managed to keep standards at the leels they are. It could be a lot worse. Look at Klango. The software is years out of date, people are able to post illegal material there and get way with endangering the security of the service.
If you really want to see the lowest of the low, go over to Tumblr. Someone showed me some vids of that shit, and it's funny if it weren't true. So net time one wants to complain about this place, just go hit up the transfat otherkin polyspirituality people with headmates community on Tumblr.
The Zone is pretty tame, actually.
I'm not all that familiar with cclango or tumbler, but I know I like the zone. I've been a member for about ten years (I think) I've made some good friends here and had a lot of fun.
I've been a cl for a year and enjoyed it too, but I'd rather not do it again.
As far as cls coming from different countries, that wasn't a problem in the past, and shouldn't be one today.
I understand if admin and chris want to move on and do something else, I simply wish they had planned their exit stratejy a little better.
Bob
I disagree Senior, even if the zone is just a blind vertual community, it should have no different when come to professionalism of the staffs and leadership. There anre lots of multi cultural global companies work on the vertual workplace, from coasts to coasts, borders to borders.
Yes, there are people who can't live without Zone, but at the same time, in any chance, it shouldn't limit what the owner of the website should do, to create a better place for all users, and a safe place for communiter leaders to work on. It doesn't matter if it is a volunteery position, pay or unpaid, vertual or not vertual. Bad leadership equals bad management, equals bad public relationship.
Not to say that, zone got some few paied member, to support the website going. And this people, is consider, as their paid client. I don't know the percentage of zone members that subscribe as a premium. Even with just 100 premium subscribers we got out of the 25700+ users, that already more than $2000 free money in JJ's pocket, without him even need to blink his eye, or have a fart.
That's exactly why I keep telling people, if you want the staff to pay attention,
just stop buying premiums. Losing his free money stream will get his attention
in a hurry. Then you can come on here and make a board post about why you
stopped giving this place money, and then maybe things will change.
Most of the people that buy premiums don't complain.
Many don't use the public chats, but do other things, like the games and such.
Many premiums are given away as well.
When people start talking about the unhealthiness of the Zone, but spend lots of time on it, this bothers me.
What is unhealthy to one person isn't necessarily unhealthy to another.
If you deem an activity unhealthy, why do you continue to do it?
Just some thoughts.
Yes, why complain about the thing that you are a part of. Members are starting to get a bad attitude and this can lead to cl's have a bad attitude.
I can't believe some of you. "This is better than other sites," "Look at other sites it could be worse," "If you don't like it why are you still here?" I can only speak for myself here but I for one am still here because of the people I've met here and the people I have yet to meet I find social networks interesting and somewhat recreational and the Zone happens to be one of the more civilized, as you've so blaitently pointed out. The whole notion that nothing can be done so it's pointless to try is exactly why the admins won't do anything about what ever issue that transpires here. If the members are not interested then and only then will nothing be done. Yes I understand that many have tried before me and very few if any at all have succeeded, and I'm sure they got the same reaction from some of you note I said some not all, which is why nothing was done. If the admins actually do log on here and believe me I plan to pester them as much as I have to to resolve this issue, they are most certainly not going to be bothered if they see all this negativity. So I'm asking you, Without all the sceptisism, without all the doubt and ifs and buts and second thoughts, do you or do you not agree that we need to demote the inactive CLs and promote someone responsible enough such as the currently active CLs, to take the job? We'll get to how and when and such later, right now all I need is a simple yes or no.
Why complain about something you're part of?
Because then it may change for the better.
On a site with as many users as the Zone, it is inevitable that there will be a range of opinions about the future direction of the site, what the rules should be and other matters. Several changes have been made to accommodate more sensitive users over the years.
I agree with the point made about the content on Tumblr. Tumblr has acknowledged that it hosts disturbing content and taken some action to reduce it. What the Tumblr example shows is that when a website attracts too many users,, it becomes difficul to moderate, regardless of whether the moderators work in the same place or are a few volunteers giving up some of their free time.
By people having a unhealthy relationship with websites like the Zone, I mean people who are on the site every day for several hours. It becomes such a big part of their lives, and the people on the site have such a significant role in their lives, than any disagreements can escalate into conflicts that are difficult to resolve. I know that problem isn't limited to the Zone, but some other online communities have moderators who can respond quickly to the conflict in a way that is designed to de-escalate it and restore harmony. The Zone relies on volunteers giving up their free time and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them think that they are giving up their free time to keep the Zone going and it is being thrown back in their faces by ungreatful users. I don't imagine they want to be spending hours sorting out problems between users.
Ah, I was just coming back to see if anything was being done yet... Okay, I'm going back to sleep now.
InfectiousShadow, you say, "The whole notion that nothing can be done so it's pointless to try is exactly why the admins won't do anything about what ever issue that transpires here."
I beg to differ with you. The major reason the admins don't do anything is simply because the admins don't do anything. It has nothing to do with what we do or don't do here.
Chris and J are both good guys, they've just lost interest in the zone.
You think another email to the admins will do any good? Go ahead and send one--send a hundred--they'll take action when they're ready, and nothing we do or say here will make one damned difference.
Last one to log out, please turn out the lights.
Bob
Hahaha Bob, i like your last bit of your post. hehehe.
Bob, is that why the longest I had to wait for a reply was 5 hours? and the shortest 4 minutes? So negative. Nothing will be accomplished this way.
It is different from replying to an email than actually spending time, doing what they should do on this website. If, something has been done about it, then, i guess, my following data won't be the same as it is, now. I didn't put Anthony on the data because, at the time of me writing this, he is on the Zone... This shows yet again, words are ust words, but no action has been taking.
Staff Admin last log in Sunday, 20-Jul-2014 17:26:20 (14 days ago)
Staff Chris N last log in Thursday, 10-Jul-2014 18:12:38 (24 days ago)
CL Liz last log in Saturday, 12-Apr-2014 17:59:05 (3 months, 23 days ago)
CL Ocean Dreams last log in Saturday, 26-Jan-2013 23:41:04 (1 year, 6 months, 14 days ago)
CL KC8PNL last log in yesterday 04:39:15 (less than a day ago)
CL Grecia last log in Saturday, 02-Aug-2014 15:51:01 (1 day ago) (after 3-4-6 months of abcent)
Look at the board titled, "Please Read: Seeking Input on Updates to Terms of Service"
How long has it been since an admin responded to it, and the owner is the creator of that topic. If you think we're all negative and that we've never tried to post constructive and positive feedback, I will just assume you didn't take a look at that board. Also, your husband reported me to Chris N because I wouldn't do anything to Gizmobear for awarding points to every loged in user and putting something about being butch transsexuals as the reason for the reward. I take it he got a response right away? I've been shaking in my boots ever since, let me tell ya. The nightmares are so vivid and real...
Maybe the best way to get something done on the zone is for Anthony to quit, or at least take a short vacation.
Pina, thanks for the updated staff repport. Those are tedious to turn out and, in my opinion, rathe
OOps. My fault, not the zones. Let's start over.
Maybe the best way to get something done on the zone is for Anthony to quit, or at least take a short vacation.
Pina, thanks for the updated staff report. Those are tedious to turn out and, in my opinion, rather helpful.
Now, if y'all will excuse me, I'm going to beat the crap out of my keyboard.
Bob
oh wow, liz was here 3 months ago lol
I haven't heard of most of those CLs listed. Either that or their names don't ring a bell.
Anthony, who reported what? What ever issue you've had with someone's report to who ever regarding some stupid spat which happened weeks ago and nobody even mentions has nothing to do with me. If someone reported something, it's because they saw something, but I assure you I had nothing to do with it. I did not tell anyone to report anything Heck I don't even give a damn anymore. It's done and over with and even mentioning it to me gives me the idea that you assume otherwise, which honestly offends me. My pride mostly but you catch the drift.
Regarding the issue at hand, rather than sitting here and writing about how useless it will be it would be much more beneficial to excert some pressure on it if enough people even agree at all. The fact that many have tried to get this going in the past tells me that people do want a reelection. Sitting here writing about how useless and pointless it all is isn't doing us any better than continuing to push on. The latter can only get more done than the former and it can't possibley hurt all that more.
Okay, then how long must we wait until an admin responds to this board. Weren't you told by an admin to make a board about it? You'd done that, so now what?
I think Anthony's point, though correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't to bring up an old argument but to illustrate that reporting something to admins doesn't necessarily mean things will get done.
And the user who said that things don't get done because the admins just don't want, rather than because people complain is totally right. From what I can tell they aren't really all that interested in the zone, and although they'll reply to your emails it doesn't mean they're actually on the site coding.
I'm not saying I'm going to leave the zone because of this, it's pretty fun, but I'm not holding my breath for any major changes. I'm not being negative here, just truthful, sometimes admins of a site do end up moving on.
Guess you can't tell someone how to run there business. I suspect the Zone works, so they don't need to always be here doing anything about it.
We all use it daily.
Recently things were updated.
Sure, this board should have been responded to, but if you think about it, the things ask are not major workings as to the operations.
The site works, you can use it, so it serves it's purpose well.
Okay, honest confession here. When I saw the OP say "is that why the longest I had to wait for a reply was 5 hours? and the shortest 4 minutes?" I thought, Holy shit! This gal must have some enormous tits in order to get a response so quickly. XD
That would presume a pic or an audio was sent with the message, and that the admins are straight. Don't know if we could prove either one to be true or not.
But yes, she's clearly misguided. Attitudes of users doesn't change administrative policy. Not like is being referenced here.
People set up whole Facebook pages to trash Facebook for a whole host of things that they do on an ongoing basis, and that changes nothing.
Oh and the coding changes to this site? I won't speak to specifics, not having access to their source and prior changes in source control, I will just guess.
The modifications were a significant undertaking of time. These were not site changes you asked for, but they were more modern web compliance. And with every change one makes like this, there is endless testing to make sure things don't break. Cool kids who play video games and write a line of code now and again or make their own project for them and their friends haven't learned this yet. But websites like this and others are just like any other software: Each change gets tested, and that takes time.
Again, people are talking policy changes they want, and what happened was modern compliance structural changes. All that means is different changes than are being asked for are being implemented.
And no, I don't have access to their dev environment or source or source code, so all I am doing here is your typical SWAG. (Scientific wild-ass guess).
Forreal:
"The site works, you can use it, so it serves it's purpose well."
And what is the purpice of the Community leaders, dare I ask?
There was no picture or audio file sent with the email. Some of you, including you Anthony, have seen it before I sent it.
Forereel: the website is not frequently updated. If you take a look n the back end of the side, you can see how messy the website coding is. And, most of the coding is like years old. Also, on the log in page, the site announcement page, there are things that suppose to been took off for ages, but they never do.
If you are talking about updated, on the games and stuff, i believe that is Anthony's and scott's good work on it.
So, how long has it been since this board was created, and has an admin responded to it yet? Did I miss something?
Yes Anthony, you don't have tits, and you didn't contact the admins. See? longest 5hours, and shortest 4minutes. You got to work harder, need to know how to please, you silly CL.
Oi, i meant, big tits. lol stupid computer
LOL you haven't seen my tits lately then, have you? My belly is big too. now if I can just find some diet reese's cups...
I've read all the posts in this topic and would like to respond to some of the things you all have brought up.
With respect to the original idea to hold elections again and/or some sort of application process, I think it's long overdo, just like many things that need doing around here that the cl's ourselves cannot do.
Cody: we typically have made our selection based on a user that has been around for at least 2 years, or by a set user ID number. If the person has been around for less of an amount of time than that, or their user ID is higher than the threshold, they aren't eligible this time around.
I think an anual election would be best, it gives time for those new in the position to become familiar with the site's features and really try to make at least somewhat of a positive impact on those who log in.
I agree with Joanne that we should have a partially appointed and partially elected staff, to help with not making this a popularity contest. You can be the most popular person on the site and have 0 knowledge of how to assist someone who needs it.
There is no real reason to be concerned about having CL's from different countries, in fact, I'd argue quite the opposite. This site is up almost 24 hours a day, and having people scattered across different time zones who will log in at different times to do the CL thing makes it more likely that the staff can take care of issues as fast as possible.
Also, Anthony has tits, they are just less hairy and smaller than mine. LOL
The site was updated recently. I don’t mean things on the page, but things on the actually site.
The admin’s spent a few days here last month doing stuff, and they site is running better.
It works, serves it purpose, because we use it daily, and these things work.
Administration is lacking, but I suppose these things don’t bother me.
CL’s like Anthony are needed.
He keeps the games running, solves disputes, helps people when they are having learning curve issues on how to use and locate things on the site.
When new member join, he checks to see if they are legit, ditches these that are not, or just here to make trouble.
CL’s have other important task as well, but these are some of them.
All sights have some sort of these even if they are not visible.
I guess I stand here. If I’m wearing a pair of shoes that hurts my feet, and I hate them, I simply stop wearing these shoes.
If they are buffed up, and don’t look the best, but are comfortable, I wear them and don’t worry so much about how they look. I’ve got other pairs to wear when I’m not wanting the buffed ones on.
I don’t say you all should not say your opinions, this is okay by me, but I do think this site does and has served a good place in our community.
When it goes down for a short time, people get mad, and such things. It never seems to be down long, and that’s a good thing.
With the bad, there is far greater good. I think this needs to be said as well.
I personally get a hell of a lot of pleasure, information, and such things from this site.Lots a mileage in my buffed shoes.
So, I say so and also see the scuffs.
Forreal just because things are or seem good enough doesn't mean they can't be better I believe an election would be better if I didn't I wouldn't be here posting and sending emails especially after having been told that I wouldn't get anywhere. I'm not the sort of person who would spend this much time on something unles there's even a slim chance of succeeding. I'm beond certain that Anthony is an excellent CL, and the last thing I'd want to come out of this is for him to be demoted. But with this many people using the site, 2 CLs are not nearly enough. Anthony is here a lot but he can't be here all the time. With more active CLs the chances of someone else being here when he isn't are greater.
Hmm, next cl election, one of the question can be "what size and how hairy your tits?" hahahahaha
Oh, I believe in things being better, but I also believe in giving credit when it is due.
I applaud your efferts, so maybe it will help.
Smile.
Pina Colada, you are disgusting! Hahaha! So is Anthony and whoever else mentioned giant hairy tits.
I don't see what else posting to this will accomplish, so I guess we might as well make it funny, or disgusting, or something.
The admins know how we feel and what we'd like, yet they sit on Olympus eating cracker jacks, or something.
The problem with the zone isn't programming (fixing problems), it's lousy administration. If our founding fathers had been as far sighted as the zone leaders, we'd adopted "Mary had a little lamb" as our constitution.
Now, I've got to do something productive like read "our randomnesses".
Bob
Ah Come on Bob, just admit it, you would like to know how big Scott, Anthony, and, aham, tits size are, and how hairy they be right? lol. hahahaha.
Well, Forereel, show me, what sort of improvements that the delighted admins have improve significantly when they last log in?
Off the top of my head here’s what I saw.
Remember the security glitch? This was fixed on the Zone within 24 hours, and we had to change our passwords.
Headings on the boards.
The mail client wasn’t working correctly, now it does.
Headers lines were updated, so low they say more silly things.
I think that 8 ball deal also has more answers.
Some games were refreshed and repaired.
I think the sports challenge was fixed.
Some of these fixes are posted on the boards too.
For some I relies these didn’t matter, but I did see some users saying they appreciated the changes.
I will do here what I did in a previous post to a board made by Blobby. We can see the last 100 log ins for each user, so here's the current data on staff. I think all users have access to this data anyway? To This can indicate another level of involvement in the community. During 2014, the following users have logged in the number of times indicated. This is not for me to comment on, but just providing the info in the interest of disclosure.
1. Admin 37
2. Jage 16
26. Chris N 74
267. kc8pnl over 100, though to be honest, not much beyond that.
283. liz 2, in 2013 12 in 2011 18
4179. Devilish Anthony over 100
6405. OceanDream 0. in 2013, 13. Any data before that is not rellivant since she was not a cl.
8765. Grecia 8. in 2013, 26.
Sports challenge isn't done by the admins. It's other people who input the data for what games are coming up and the scores.
And lol I'm surprised admin logged in 37 times.
Yes, I've loged in over 100 times, but I'm usually here for hours at a stretch as well. What we really need is a "Time spent," indicator. But if we had that, it would only show me that I don't have a life, so maybe this is just as well.
That's partially true. I do a fair amount of work on the NFL and NHL pools, both adding and editing them, but there is one user who does a fantastic job of helping me with this. Because, well, most of us have lives, and the point of having a team of active CL's is to not burn anyone out. I won't get in to my offline life on here, but I can assure you it exists and takes a lot of my time. I also had some very serious medical issues to take care of a couple of weeks ago which didn't help my participation level very much at all. I guess my point is that I'm in this to help the users, and I do what I can with the limited amounts of free time I have.
And that's one of the reasons why I strongly believe that 2 CLs isn't enough. With you not being able to log in for a while Scot the only active CL we had was Anthony. What if something prevented him from logging on? Broken Computer, bad Connection no connection health problems lack of time? Anything at all. There wouldn't have been anyone here to handle things. I can list several other reasons but this would be one of the most relevant.
I don't think anyone's saying that your idea is bad.
But the fact is there really isn't any structure to implement this.
If the admins reply and get this going then that's really awesome.
But don't hold your breath lol.
To be honest, from the rate of the website at the moment, cl or no cl doesn't really make a different. Yes, CL might keep everybody, or most people in tact, keeps anagrams alife, and cleaning up shit after zoners. But, really, is that enough? answer is not. And, no one will blame either Scott or Anthony if any of you two don't log in. In fact, considering the other cls record, i'm amaze both of you still standing as a cl as it is.
It is simply, bad organization, bad adminstration, and bad leadership from the site owner himself.
I posted a question on the Staff mailing list asking the admins to look at this topic, not sure if they did. I'm not sure what else to do at this point, just like I didn't when I came back from resigning in 2010 or 2009 or whenever it was. I came back with the knowledge that all I can do is my best to maintain what's here. And so, for at least 4 years now, that's what I have been doing along with Anthony when he became a CL and a couple of others who resigned.
hahaha, Scott, maybe because you fail to mention how big and hairry your tits are, thats
why they haven't take action yet. You got to try harder, boy. lol. jk. :P
Hi there. Just thought I'd check and see if JJ has responded yet. This is the longest 5 hours or 4 minutes I've ever endured.
I know, right? I was thinking the same thing.
I haven't sent him another email yet. I was waiting for other people to comment but if y'all think it's about time it can very quickly be arrainged.
Wow, you're really missing the point here, so I'm going to just stop responding. You wrote him, he suggested you make a board. You made the board, now where is he? Email him to your heart's content. Have fun. It's a bit sad when a member can get a response in a few minutes, when a staff member can have an enquiry go unanswered for months. Cary on.
I'd say it's past time for an email.
Tell the admins we want more cls, someone who is dedicated to be able to perform some of the admin's functions, like updating the TOS..
Oh yes, Pina wants a checkbox in profiles for "hairy tits, (y/n)".
Bob
i think updating the tos is not part of cls voluntry job description at the moment. If, they
have the control of the tos, it will be much more updated than what it is right now.
I think we can all agree that the tos need to be updated, and that it can't be done by an absentee landlord.
Therefore, someone (preferably the cls, at least the working ones) need to be able to do it.
Bob
Anthony if the admins for some reason or other don't reply to your emails for months at a time it certainly has nothing to do with me. Someone said that the admins don't reply to emails and that I shouldn't even bother and I told them that the longest I had to wait for an email back was 5 hours. If that displeases you I suggest you take it up with the admins who reply to me, not me. Pouting and acting like a child and having a go at me isn't going to make them reply any quicker. should either of them read your comments in fact, they would most probably continue to, not bother to reply to someone who displays such behavior.
While everyone is getting there underwear in a bunch. Heres the deal.
People have lives, period. Honestly I think Chris and JJ should shut this
whole site down. If I was an admin I would why? Because all people ever
do is bitch including the CL's. I understand there are two. Well, there used
to be 4 why is that do you suppose?
Also Just because your a CL doesn't mean you can do what ever the fuck
you want or say what ever the fuck you want. Yes Anthony I am referring
to you. You were put as a cl for a reason. And to represent this site and
what it means not be a dick and be offensive to people. And I am glad
Chris made you shake in your boots. Maybe next time you will think before
you speak. I've been on this site for a long time and I know the current
cl's are burnt out. But you still have a job to do.
Most of the people I met on here don't even go on this site anymore why?
because all everyone does is bitch an not solve the problem or at least try
nicely with kind words like Infectiousshadow is trying to do. And all anyone
has the decency to do is fucking bitch.
and what do you call what you're doing, exactly, poster 94?
I think having new cl's is a good idea, but i just don't believe in it actually happening anymore. i don't believe the TOS will be updated either. I believe the site will continue to carry on as usual, but past that? i think all trust from admans has been lost. i don't know that anything could have them gain it back either. its sad.
InfectiousShadow, for Christ sakes, send the fuckin' email and quit your bitching.
basketballfreakslive, do you have irritable brain syndrome, or something? Do the rest of us a favor and shut the site down for yourself, just don't sign in.
bob
Lol, nothing n ew there. The wife come and atact others, and the husband come and back the wife up. Bully and abuse should be their name. This attitude of them is nothing new, they have done that to Anthony again and again. It also shows, how poor the policy is. If admins got balls, things like that won't happen. Respect should be in place for CLS that dedicate their time and part of their life to serve the community, include the bitches and bullies and abuses that people throws at the cls.
"Lol, nothing n ew there. The wife come and atact others, and the husband come and back the wife up. "
I attacked others? Really? I'd like you to back that up with evidence now if you please. Have you even read your own comments to start with? Just because I answered you on public quick notes where you first attacked me doesn't make me a bully, it makes me a person who doesn't take crap from people like you. I'll be waiting for that evidence.
"Bully and abuse should be their name. This attitude of them is nothing new, they have done that to Anthony again and again."
I have a name for you I'm just too concerned of becoming more and more like yourself if I write it. We've done what to Anthony? I've done what to Anthony? I'd like to know where he got this idea that I hate him or that I hold something against him as he's mentioned. Along with the evidence I'd also like you to tell me what I did to Anthony. You're making faulce aligations here and I suggest you watch what you say.
Ya know, Basketball? The more I read your post, the more I agree with you. The admins come out of this whole thing smelling like a rose. All they have to do is not be here. Yes, I was put here to represent the site that the owner abandoned. I think it's time for me to take a much needed vacation. Also, your sarcasm detector must be broken. Chris N never contacted me, at all, about your little hissy fit. And yes, as a matter of fact, I'll say whatever the fuck I want, to whomever I choose to say it. If the admins feel that I'm doing a bad job representing the site, there's a little button they could press and I'd be history. Right?
"People have lives, period. Honestly I think Chris and JJ should shut this whole site down."
Ah, yes, It's time for me to get off of here and get a life as well.
"I've been on this site for a long time and I know the current
cl's are burnt out. But you still have a job to do."
So does the owner, but you're not mentioning that. Why is it that you are selective on who you hold responsible and accountable. The owner and the inactive cL's can't do anything wrong, since they don't do anything at all. Also, how can I do my job when my attempts at enforcing the rules are overwridden? I've been told, more than once, to just let it slide, when I pointed out that there are several users on this site who have more than one account. In talking about the CL's, you said there used to be more, and you wonder why they're not here now. It's obvious that they went out and found something more productive to do. Do you know what the main difference between me and those disappearing CL's is? I didn't make a whole shitload of promises. I simply stepped up to the plate and did the best I could do under the circumstances. Those who made all the promises have deserted the zone and their responsibility, and you don't seem to think much of it. so yes, even being associated with a trash site like this is a negative impact.
OK, I know I have participated in the complaining, but honestly I'm sick of this whole topic. I think infectious disease is nothing but a trouble maker. For the most part I am happy with this site the way it is. Yes, I'd like to see the admdins be more responsive, and I'd like to see more than two CL's log in and do their jobs. But because of all my health problems that prevent me from being able to get another job, I spend a lot of time on here and would hate to see it shut down. I have also noticed for a long time that the majority of zone users don't even read the boards. You se the same names over and over again starting board topics and responding to topics. I doubt if most people who come on here even look at the boards, and I bet most of them are quite happy with the site. If they aren't, then they sure spend a hell of a lot of time someplace they don't like.
So, constant whiners, get off the damn site if you don't like it but stop calling for it to be shut down.
"I think infectious disease is nothing but a trouble maker."
Wow, very mature. Some people here sure have a habbet of pulling idiotic ideas out of thin air.
Joanne I'm still waiting for that evidence.
OH look Joann a CL that agrees with me. Shut your fucking mouth bitch. I
have a right to way MY opinion as much as any other member on this site.
And last I checked I've been here longer. Those that hate me. I really don't
give two fucks. Joann just remember you don't fucking now me don't screw
with me. Anthony I have respect for you but me reporting you should have
remained between you and me and Chris not the rest of the zone.
Hey she is just doing what the admins told her to do. If you don't like it no
one is making you reply.
a well-intentioned topic that has resulted in insults and name-calling being flung around. sad.
Thank you John.
The first thing I believe should be done is the seezing of insults, from either side. swaring and lashing out isn't going to get anybody anywhere.
Basket I didn't refraim from insulting her back to open the floor for you. I'm sure everyone here has good intentions in one way or another but starting a war isn't going to get things done. I've sent the email to the admins on 3 separate email addresses so they will surely see it. When I don't know. Will they reply? I have no idea. I didn't ask them too. All I said is that I've posted on the boards as was suggested and hopefully they'll take a look at it some time soon.
if you really want to make the admins take notice, stop buying premium memberships. you're just paying for a service that never gets updated. I think Anthony said previously that the last staff meating was in November 2012. just goes to show how little the people in charge really care about the site. as long as you keep throwing your money at them, they'll keep accepting it and nothing will change.
the voting system was a farse last time around. most people didn't bother with it because it just became a popularity contest. those chosen were not those who would have done the best job, it was the ones who seemed like they had more people shouting in support for them. popularity doesn't automatically make for good leadership. I would like to point out that I am not referring to Anthony, or scott when I say this. they both do a good job. Anthony especially is around a lot of the time, and is always willing to help people.
I agree with what dale and blue velvet said.
I personally don't have anything against the admins, I don't know them etc. But the fact is they aren't often around, so I think if you want a site where there is strong management that has to start from the top. Otherwise we have to accept it for what it is and continue to use the zone in it's current form.
and that's what i believe will happen. that it will continue in its current form. i, probably along with many others have given up on waiting for the admins to show us otherwise.
a lot of people believed that the admins wouldn't reply to my emails and they did so I don't think we should give this up just yet. There's nothing wrong with a little faith.
ok, i'll give you that they responded to your email.tha'ts all well and good, but what about more activity on the site?
I can tell you what happened to this site. I hadn't logged in for over two
years. Why? Because all anyone ever did was complain and stab others in the
back. You lost a lot of great people from this site and most won't return
because of the actions of others.
I'm not talking about activity from users. i'm talking about the owners and admin. I know they have come on and did stuf here and there. but a few hours here and there doesn't really mean a hell of a lot, in the last four years. .
What do you expect them to do on the site? Not just John I mean what does anyone want from them when they log on? Not trying to pick at anything I'm just curious.
well post 115. you were doing a fair bit of abusing yourself here on this board not too long ago. maybe you should behave the way you would like others to behave instead of tearing in to one of the only people who does try to make sure that things run smoothly around here.
end of the day people its like this. the owners of the site will gladly take money from those who choose to buy premium, but if you think he is going to take all your concerns and requests on board, and give you all what you want, you must be fucking tripping. its been like this for a long time. if your really want it a different way, someone needs to set up an alternative, or like I said, just stop buying premium. he is getting paid for doing the sumn total of fuck all. laughing all the way to the bank, and he doesn't care how much you all complain.
I'd also love to hear exactly what people want from the admins. I've ben here for a bit over ten years now and have experienced a lot of changes. There are many more board categories than when I joined. There are also more games. The points system I believe was changed a number of times for those who like building up points. There are a variety of quicknote commands now that never used to exist. I know this is just a premium thing, but I absolutely love being able to be invisible. That alone makes the price of a premium membership worth it for me. I don't think the sports challenge thing was here when I first came on. I'm sure I'm forgetting some changes, but honestly, do you need the site to wipe your ass for you? If the site doesn't please you, there are plenty of other places on the net to hang out.
Dale I said my point. I didn't abuse any specific members like some others
here on the site. BITE ME. Except maybe one admin. Whom knows that if I
reported him it should have been between myself and him not the entire
fucking zone website. All people care about here is other peoples business
and personal lives.
ok. i'm finally adding my unasked for thoughts. First of all, the cls that log on on a semiregular schedule are doing the work of the rest of the cls and they have to do it without the help of the admins, and the complaining of the users, (this topic). yes, things do need to change, but that doesn't mean that it'll happen. We need more cls then just two, no matter how good of a job they are or are not doing. The problem is, we need the admins to do it, and if they don't want to bother, what can we do about it? email them all you want, but that doesn't necessarily mean things will be done. Just because you get a response doesn't mean anything. Its like emailing an app developer about accessability and getting a response that says, "we'll look into it. It's on our list." Yeah, ok, its really not. I've been here for four years, give or take a few months, and i haven't really seen much change, aside from taking down a game, and replacing it with another, and atempting the raffles thing. If we want change, we have to understand that it won't happen, until we get newowners.
secondly, the reason I, personally, don't use the boreds, as someone pointed out, is because of the fact that, all it is is a way for users to start a perfectly good discussion, then have a user come in and start fighting and name calling and accusing others of things that they're guilty of.
Third, poster 115, I would like to point out the fact that you said you haven't been on for two years, but you come back for this topic? And also, no one was name calling until you started swearing, like post 118 points out.
anyway, that's just my thoughts, take it as it is.
Teardrop did I say when I logged in. I never said just for this post did I?
earlier in the topic, you said you left for the last two years.
Just to clear up the misconception he only returned when I joined the Zone in June.
I don't all remember what was suggested in the updating the termbs of service topic, but if you want lists of stuff that could be done, that's one place to start.
no its not a misconception. Its assumption. And it makes people look like
asses.
I'm still waiting for evidence I know I'll never get cause it's pretty much non existant but hey what can I do? People won't change either way so I don't even bother anymore. I just ignore them. It pisses them off sure but that's not my problem. And I know there's no way I'm getting so much as a public apology for public faulce alligations against me but oh well right?
John I started to read that topic and got pretty damn lost at post 100. There are like 44 left but most of them have nothing to do with the OP so I'm really not paying any attention to that either. Just shows how people tend to digress when they have nothing else to say.
OP? what's an op.
john, op is original post or poster, depending on the context
Yeah in this case it means post. It could also be short for operation but like teardrop said it depends on the context.
*a deep voice from underneath speaks.
The vost of the admin visited you mortals! Be happy!
vost?
Vost!
V O S T.
I think she's asking what vost means, Wayne, cause she doesn't seem to get it.
as far as what I'd like to see on here as a CL:
As the title of this poard suggests, we do need another CL or two. Also, it's been said over and over again that the points were about to matter. I don't care whether they do or they don't, but if they're not going to matter, stop making empty promises and resetting the points. Each time the points get reset, we're told that something big is about to happen, and the cycle begins all over again. If we're not going to use the raffles, just take them away. That's one less thing I have to explain to the new members.
The terms of service needs an overhaul. Members should be encouraged to use the ignore feature if they can't handle something. It is not a CL's place to come to someone's rescue just because someone doesn't like what someone else says. We're here to make sure the site runs smoothly, not to sensor people. If we are here to sensor communications, then we need much clearer groundrules on what will and will not be tolerated. I'd love to see better communication on the staff board. (we're not very good at that, myself included.) Partly, it's that I'm lazy, and partly, I figure no one else is going to do anything anyway, so why bother anymore? I've asked several questions about multiple accounts that have gone unanswered. I often feel that I've been thrown to the wolves and left to fend for myself. At that rate, it's hard to care really.
Can we now have as many accounts as we want, or does the "one account," rule still apply? If it does, there ought to be more ways of making in enforceable. Those who are obvious should be dealt with.
Mainly trying to be funny.
But okay.
Vost means Ghost.
However, the V instead of the GH comes from a cartoon I once saw and well. Lol
I got what vost meant, and saw the humor you were going for, Wayne.
"Members should be encouraged to use the ignore feature if they can't handle something. It is not a CL's place to come to someone's rescue just because someone doesn't like what someone else says. We're here to make sure the site runs smoothly, not to sensor people."
I agree with what you said about sencership, to some degree. However, if people are left to say what ever they please, what are the ToS for?
There are certain things you can't say, like some racist termonology, and then cl's step in. But I think what was meant that if someone is just being annoying, or a bit creepy, cl's aren't there to tell everyone off, you just ignore them. Because in general the site has a policy of very little censorship.
However, there are rules like no multiple accounts. And people have violated those and a cl has tried to remove them, but the admins have just said it's cool, which is why people are often annoyed with them. Either people get mad at the cl's because they're not doing their jobs, or people get mad at the admins for going against their own rules.
It either has to be that you can do what you want, because how can cl's enforce rules that are only rules for certain people, or the site needs a complete overhaul.
But to be honest a lot of people are happy here. You kind of get used to admins not being around. But if you want change like new cl's they will have to come back.
And do they want to? Are they actually interested in running this? If not then fair enough. In that case those who are happy as it is will stick around, and the position of cl will probably fall by the wayside.
Sorry this was a little lengthy, I hope you're getting my general message. I like the site, sure, it would be cool if there were updates, rules were enforced etc but I don't expect it to happen. And if the admins want to move on then that's ok, but then I don't see us having cl's at all if that happens.
you missed an important part of my post. I'll paste it again here.
If we are here
to sensor communications, then we need much clearer groundrules on what will and will not be tolerated.
Okay... lets all be friends... and make me a premium again lol
Well, 10 years ago we barely have 2000 members, 10 years from 2004 we got nearly 28,000 members with perhaps 10% active. that is still 2800, compare to 2004.
10 years ago, there are four or five cls, with at least 1 cls log in in almost any given time, with all of the cl at least 80% active on the site.
10 years from 2004, we still got about four or five cls, with 28,000 members, with only 1 cl that log in most of the time, and 1 log in at least one or twice a week, or as muc as they possibly can. With the other 3 or 4 almost non exist.
10 years ago we have a free site, with less games, less points, but also less problem. It is a relatively easy run website, with less trefic and trolls.
10 years from 2004, we got party paied site, with premium members, more troubles, more trolls, more needs for proper control and patrol of the site.
10 years ago, if we do an average populations against 1 cl, you will get around 200 to 400 members for one cl.
If you do the math, every community leader, (say all active) is responsible for about 4,000 to 6,000 members. As it stand, Anthony and Scott is responsible for about 13,000 to 15,000 members in a daily bases. That doesn't matter if 90% or even 99% out of the 28,000 or so of the members are not active.
Having more community leaders is notthe the solution for the problems, in fact it could, potentially create more problems, or just, carry on the same problems over from the old lots of cls, to the new lots of cls. How can we prove that what is happening won't happen with the new cls? It has been no action taking against the inactive CLS. No punishment, no discipline, or whats ever. So, who can then say, what is happening now when the current cls won't happen again? I could get elected, or appointed as the new cl, active for a week or two, or maybe a month or two, then i can just, take off and let zone rot and die.
Only by changing tos, and having some rather active involvement of admin staff can prove to the new cls that what they have done for the zone is highly vallue, and appreciated by the admin.
This is not by words, or by appearing ones a month, or ones every 2 months, but by making a commitment, as the web admin to the zone. I think, all the zoners, specially those pay members, and definitely the current (active) community leaders deserve that much from JJ himself.
There are parts of the TOS that I quickly and readily enforce. come on here one day when someone is trying to crash screenreaders and see how fast they get dealt with, for example.
That's a clear set rule. I have no question as to how it's supposed to be dealt with. Saying that bullying won't be tolerated, and then telling people to use the ignore feature if they can't handle something, leaves a lot of room for doubt. What is bullying and trolling, and what is someone just giving an opinion and the other person crying bully and troll because they can't handle it? See my problem? I'm put in a position, given a vague set of rules and told to enforce them. When I ask questions, many of them go unanswered.
Generally when you inforce a rule are you second guessed?
I understand about the multiple accounts, but how many of these are there actually?
Do these users actively come on the site all the time?
I wonder if these account are left iin place so iin fact the admin can log on to generally monitor?
Just a thought.
even if these accounts are left here in order to be monitored by an admin, think of how often an admin is here and you've effectively figured out about how much good it would do. If we've got a CL that hasn't been here in over a year and a half, perhaps something like a few measly duplicate accounts aren't all that important in the grand skeem of things, but surely you can understand how difficult it would be to know which rules are supposed to be enforced and which ones should be ignored, and at which times.
I have agreed that some changes are required. I can see that.
Anthony,
"Saying that bullying won't be tolerated, and then telling people to use the ignore feature if they can't handle something, leaves a lot of room for doubt."
That's what I was trying to say in my last post. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough
Anthony, thats the problem with all TOS and T&C and in some way, rules and regulation. It is all depends on the inteperation as to what consider acceptable and what is not. However, there are standards to follow. But, what happen on the zone is that the standard can be depending on who enforce it, and how to enforce it.
If admins themselves can't bother to reenforce those rules, and regulations, and TOC/TOS in general, then, the TOC/TOS become useless and waste of space. If fairness can't be reenforce from the top to the middle management, what is the point of having TOS in place?
If the 1.5 years abcent of a cl can't be accounted for, all the rest of the tos is just some extra icing on the cake.
to me it sounds like it starts from the top (aka j), and goes down from there. somebody's gotta lead this place, and right now there is no leadership. the only person tht that can lead this place is jj, the owner.
One thing Basketballfreak appears to be right about is users staying away from here because of how some users treat others. I have encountered people who are put off the The Zonefor that reason. The Zone doesn't feel as busy or alive as it used to be.
Not only do people need to stop purchasing premium memberships for jj to take notice, but people need to stop buying adds too. everybody has seems to have forgotten about this. its not just premiums that drive the money into his hands, but add revenue too. if he has 8 text adds, that's $80 per month right there. there is one good point in all this. at least the premium memberships and cost for placing adds hasnt' ever gone up since they were implimented
As far as multiple accounts. Those are based on IP addresses correct. If, this
is the case how can the administration know if it is indeed a second account
created by a person or if two different people are living in the same house
hold. And they are logging in. Just a thought.
The way it used to work, back in the dark ages, is that setting up a new account with the same ip address as someone with an existing account didn't necessarily ban a user--unless the user was a flagrant abuser (then the cls would discuss it then he was out). We'd look for things like posting habits on the boards, qns they sent, etc.
However, the way things work today, Anthony (with some duplicity from Scott) is essentially a dictator, but a dictator without teeth, since he can't actually ban anyone (only an administrator can do that.)
I still say Anthony and Scott should take a vacation, or go on strike, something to get Admin's attention..
Bob
Take a look at the following profiles, Basket.
10228
4478
27815
Let me know what you find, as well as what you think of it. It's just one of many examples. I was told, by the owner, to let it slide.
Also, Take a look at:
9446
27858
I wrote in to the staff list about this discovery, and low and behold, I'm still waiting for a response.
When someone uses the same social networking handles and even give the same name and birthday for all accounts, I'd say it's pretty obvious. Yes, I realize that I was put here and given the power to deal with it, (and I can bann, BtW,) but after being second guessed or totally ignored, what, exactly, do you suggest I do? Back in the day, I checked out every account before I approved it. I went through the birthday list for each day and looked for duplicates. But honestly, I don't care enough anymore to be bothered with it, so there you have it. If you can't be bothered to look for those profiles and see what I've found, then congratulations. You now can experience first hand exactly how I feel. Also, don't get the idea that I've let these people have more than one account because they're my friends. I don't know these people, and honestly don't care to know them.
Anthony, that was nice of you to share what you've found. I really, really hope that's taken care of, though I won't hold my breath.
I did have the problem with me and another person that lived in my house having 2 accounts.
I was accused of having 2, but proved I wasn't the same user.
We split, so her account was disabled, and she doesn't care to get a new one.
So, it is possible to get accused.
Now, I often times log on from differen't IP addresses, but you can tell it's me. Lol
I talk the same shit no matter what my IP is.
I, too, have been questioned about whether I had another account, but thankfully, things were resolved quickly.
IP-based account varification is faulty at best, and us CL's are human. As I sat here invisibly one night, I saw several members talking about making bets to see who could make fake accounts and get away with it for the longest amount of time before getting caught, if they got caught at all. when I came out of invisibility and pointed out that they were essentially chatting about who could fool me for the longest amount of time, I got several private notes from shamed members, saying they were only joking. For all I know, they were only joking. My point still stands. With so many ways of loging in on here, by phone, computer, public hotspot and the likes, would fooling me and getting away with breaking the rule really make someone a legend? I mean, isn't that an awfully high goal to set for ones self?
I've also worked with many people who made new accounts because they'd forgotten their old password and couldn't update their email address. Once I helped them to access their old account, I quietly disabled the new one, since I knew it had been created, (not to break a rule, but because the person didn't know what else to do.) Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think I've been a pretty lenient cL in these matters. Quite often, when people don't see me whip a user to death in publics, they assume that I simply allowed people to get away with whatever they wanted. I do my best work behind the scenes, and as Mister Basket over there has pointed out, when I take a user aside and deal with it, It's shouldn't be a matter of public record. It's between me and the user who broke the rule, and if necessary, an admin or the rest of the staff.
But i'm getting away from the point. When I see two or more accounts loged in from the same IP address, I take a good look. There are accounts that obviously belong to two different people. If any of you remember the whole DJ Angel and DJ Lias situation, she and her boyfriend not only had more than one account, but they admitted, to more than one CL, that they both loged in on each other's accounts. They loged in and out with different accounts many times in the space of only a few minutes, and it created quite a public uproar, in which I was told how I didn't do my job and that I might as well not even be here, since I didn't do anything when I saw someone breaking the rules anyway. I eventually got enough proof to bann them, which I did do. So yes, I'm sure we can make mistakes and wrongly accuse people of having more than one account, when in fact, they simply live in the same house with someone else. I can honestly say that I do quite a bit of investigating before taking action, and even then, I always run it by the staff, just to make sure. I'm aware that power can corrupt people, and in a lot of cases, I doubt my own judgment, so before I use my powers, I need to know that I'm making the right decision. Can anyone see how this is in sharp contrast to pointing out duplicate accounts and then being told to let it slide? I'm never sure of when I'm to enforce the rules or just sit back and roll with the punches. Really, Why not just take the terms of service down, open up a free for all, unbann all the banned accounts, then sit back and watch the drama unfold? trust me. It would drive business to the site. People would pay to be able to be invisible and watch, and they'd pay to be able to run back through QN history to see what they'd missed, especially after word got out that there was this huge fight last night. People would have to either toughen up, or use the ignore feature more wisely. That choice would be up to them. The CL's position would practically be illiminated, aside from approving accounts and putting up the daily mania.
yes, Anthony, I totally see why you feel the way you do, and I can't say I blame you, one bit.
like I said to you anth. damned if you do and damned if you don't. quite literally. guess the old addige (am I using the right word here?) stands. you really cant make anybody happy all the time. hell, sometimes no matter what you do, somebody wil find a reason to bitch. those first 3 accounts I've seen , they all shoulda been banned and not aloud to come back.
so jj, where the hell are you?
Well, you do a fine job.
In my case I actually had 2 accounts from the same address. It was looked in to by Doug, so no harm done.
The other person did use there's for a bit.